portfolio & design blog of logo & identity designer, Graham Smith
So, moving on from my last post I Need a Logo Designed for Free”, on logo designers being asked to do ‘free’ logos, or in exchange for the never arriving skill swap for free fitted wardrobe units. Here is the next tier up or down, depending on your viewpoint.
“What are your rates, what do you charge for logo design?”
Seemingly harmless in itself and frankly on the surface a fair enough question. But lets open this up a little more.
I have stopped giving out hourly or fixed rates for logo projects,
Typically, I have moved on from offering up hourly rates or fixed rates when a potential client comes approaches me with the opening post question : “What are your rates, what do you charge for logo design?” The exception is for a budget logo package which ultimately is only suitable for website header graphics etc.
If you ask that question, if you are the client, dig a little deeper and actually stop to think about that what it is you are asking. You are asking a question that needs way more information before it can be ‘accurately’ answered.
In some cases this can put the designer in a pretty awkward position.
Cost, worth and budget
Ultimately, it comes down to how much the client is prepared to pay in relation to how important this project is for them, what their budget is.
It’s not for me to set a price ceiling for a clients logo or brand identity project.
Heck, I know nothing about them. I don’t even know at this point the name of their brand, let alone how much they should spend. Or more importantly, how serious and devoted they are to their own success. Do they understand that logo and brand identity design is a pretty complex and involved process? If not, we need to help, thats if they want the help of course.
To the client
You tell me how important this project is to you. You tell me how far this new identity of yours needs to penetrate. You tell me how many people it needs to touch. You tell me how many competitors you need to rise against. There will be many more questions, but we can make a start with some basics.
When you come to me and ask me what my costs are before I know even the slightest bit about you, you are asking me an impossible question.
- It’s impossible if you want me to do the best job I possibly can for you.
- It’s easy if you want me to do a cheap slap dash job.
And if it’s the latter, I can tell you know, I will refuse and suggest you find some clip art. Well, that’s a bit harsh, but I kinda mean it.
Only then can we make progress. Only then can we start working out figures before asking the client to commit.
The downside and what to do about it
Unfortunately, there are many clients who want a quick fix logo quote. The moment you say its not that simple, that they need to provide some informtion, you may not hear from them again. At this point it is up to you to decide if they are better off going elsewhere or if you feel they need a slight prod and a guiding hand.
Whenever I get ‘that’ question, I send them a nice email just outlining why it’s not so easy to just come up with a default rate. I summarize why, and the reasons. I try to put their mind at ease when the ‘budget’ question is asked. I let them know Im not going to take them to the cleaners. I implicitly tell them that I will not use up their generous budget if I don’t have to. They can help this by providing as much information as possible and answering all the questions on my initial quote form.
I will ask them again to fill in my online quote form which is a pretty easy bunch of questions for them to answer. (One client refused to fill in the form, and repeatedly asked me to just pluck a number from thin air.) Guess what I did.
You need to explain that if they are serious about the logo and identity then this WILL mean more investment. You can’t get away from that one. The old well abused and used cliché, “you get what you pay for” has never been so true and so appropriate.
But even after I send this email, I will sometimes not hear from them again. But this is OK. This pretty much tells me that they were either after something for nothing, or just not happy to work at working with me.
You must want to work ‘with’ me
Thats important to consider, if they are not happy to work to work with you for their own best interests, do you really want the stress of having them as a client? If filling out a quote form that has a few brief related questions is too much, kinda paints a picture about the client, does it not?
It takes work from both sides to complete a successful logo and brand identity project. It ‘just’ doesn’t happen without considerable input from the client and a big helping hand from the designer.
I know now that the clients that do stick with me through this initial process, are the ones that will be appreciative and understanding.
Categories: Logo & Brand Identity, My Views
Tagged: brand identity, budget, costs, logo design, Quotes < Previous: From my Illustration Portfolio – Elvis Presley Portrait
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Fantastic article! I tend to get on my soap box about this very topic, so I love to see others blog about it :)
Fantastic article! I tend to get on my soap box about this very topic, so I love to see others blog about it :)
LIndsay : yeah, it’s one of those things that I feel DOES need to be repeated. Its educational at the heart of it. If you don’t tell the client these things, then how are they meant to know?
It is our job to inform as much as possible.
LIndsay : yeah, it’s one of those things that I feel DOES need to be repeated. Its educational at the heart of it. If you don’t tell the client these things, then how are they meant to know?
It is our job to inform as much as possible.
I reckon design is one of those professions that should get measured on effort + result instead of just the result.
How many people lookes at the new Pepsi redesign and thought… that looks easy… I could’ve done that. You probably could, or you couldn’t, but I bet that Pepsi didn’t order their ‘look’ from a 20$ stocklogo website.
I reckon design is one of those professions that should get measured on effort + result instead of just the result.
How many people lookes at the new Pepsi redesign and thought… that looks easy… I could’ve done that. You probably could, or you couldn’t, but I bet that Pepsi didn’t order their ‘look’ from a 20$ stocklogo website.
Pepsi would have been better off going to get some clip art in this case. :)
The whole point with effort+result is that to get the ‘result’, ‘effort needs to be paid for, which is pretty much same as time. As long as the time you spend working is genuine. When a client asks for a cheap logo, then they are making the assumption that not much effort is needed to create it.
If I said what my ‘real’ hourly rate was, and say multiply that by 4. That would easily overshoot the typical £150 plus bargain basement logo. 4 hours or so on a logo does not typically give you a well thought out, well researched appropriate brand.
Agencies take a minimum of 2 months to create a full brand identity.
So even if a logo designer charged say, £400, thats still woefully underpriced if you want a well rounded identity.
A cheap logo, or clipart or going to one of the many online logo factories and paying $50 is fine if yo don’t care for uniqueness or an identity that is personal and meaningful.
If you need to take your business seriously, if you want professional clients to take you seriously, then a good solid identity DOES take time and that equates to a whole lot of hours.
It is educating clients that logo design is not ultimately a cheap and quick process if you want the real thing. But many clients want the best by outlaying very little.
And many designers will fall into this just to earn some money, not they fault, its the economy and a need to survive, but is does no good in the long run.
Pepsi would have been better off going to get some clip art in this case. :)
The whole point with effort+result is that to get the ‘result’, ‘effort needs to be paid for, which is pretty much same as time. As long as the time you spend working is genuine. When a client asks for a cheap logo, then they are making the assumption that not much effort is needed to create it.
If I said what my ‘real’ hourly rate was, and say multiply that by 4. That would easily overshoot the typical £150 plus bargain basement logo. 4 hours or so on a logo does not typically give you a well thought out, well researched appropriate brand.
Agencies take a minimum of 2 months to create a full brand identity.
So even if a logo designer charged say, £400, thats still woefully underpriced if you want a well rounded identity.
A cheap logo, or clipart or going to one of the many online logo factories and paying $50 is fine if yo don’t care for uniqueness or an identity that is personal and meaningful.
If you need to take your business seriously, if you want professional clients to take you seriously, then a good solid identity DOES take time and that equates to a whole lot of hours.
It is educating clients that logo design is not ultimately a cheap and quick process if you want the real thing. But many clients want the best by outlaying very little.
And many designers will fall into this just to earn some money, not they fault, its the economy and a need to survive, but is does no good in the long run.
Many clients just don’t ‘get’ pricing for design work. The problem is perception and awareness – most non design people only know about $50 instant logos or £400k 2012 Olympic logos and are unaware what goes on in between these prices! I shall certainly be referring clients to this article next time I get asked how much…..!
Many clients just don’t ‘get’ pricing for design work. The problem is perception and awareness – most non design people only know about $50 instant logos or £400k 2012 Olympic logos and are unaware what goes on in between these prices! I shall certainly be referring clients to this article next time I get asked how much…..!
On the other hand… a lot of designers and design agencies have been ripping off clients for years, with mediocre work and unreasonable pricing.
Think there’s no real pointable culprit here, but years of mismanagement on both sides…
On the other hand… a lot of designers and design agencies have been ripping off clients for years, with mediocre work and unreasonable pricing.
Think there’s no real pointable culprit here, but years of mismanagement on both sides…
I know I will probably be heckled for these comments. However, while I understand why you say what you say, you have to understand the other side of the equation.
I had my logo designed by professionals, and I had about 20 people I spoke to before choosing my designer. If I had to fill out one of the designer sheets for each designer, I probably would have used clip art to avoid having to fill out the sheets.
I do realize that it may be a problem with some clients who are incessantly picky. But, thats the cost of being in business for ourselves. You have profit centers and drivers. Your logo “fee” may be the driver so that people use your services for other items like packaging etc which you can make a better profit on. They will want to work with you since you know their taste, and they know your work.
Just my 2 cents.
I know I will probably be heckled for these comments. However, while I understand why you say what you say, you have to understand the other side of the equation.
I had my logo designed by professionals, and I had about 20 people I spoke to before choosing my designer. If I had to fill out one of the designer sheets for each designer, I probably would have used clip art to avoid having to fill out the sheets.
I do realize that it may be a problem with some clients who are incessantly picky. But, thats the cost of being in business for ourselves. You have profit centers and drivers. Your logo “fee” may be the driver so that people use your services for other items like packaging etc which you can make a better profit on. They will want to work with you since you know their taste, and they know your work.
Just my 2 cents.
“The Evolution of a Website Design” is a cracker of a post. Nice collection once again!
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well that should keep me busy for the next day or so ;-) great stuff
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Very interesting debate and I can certainly see from both sides. For most designers I would say they should have a fixed price ready for a client as ‘price’ is the number one thing people look for now. I can’t think of many product/ services were you can’t get an instant price. Having looked at your logo quote questionnaire I can see how a lot of clients shopping for a quick quote would be put off but as you say the more barriers you put up the better quality client you will attract. My guess is you are charging a little more than the average designer who reads these posts (tho your work is great! ;-) so for yourself personally I think the quote questionnaire and your price argument is fair and valid for the clients you attract – who are prepared to invest in a quality logo. For any designers charging £200 or less giving a fixed fee would probably suit them better. I think ultimately it comes down to how as a designer you want to market yourself fast/cheap vs quality/price. No right or wrong answer really.
Yup, I agree. No right or wrong answer, all comes down to how you work and the type of work you are happy to attract and provide, not to mention the getting appropriate reputation.
Very interesting debate and I can certainly see from both sides. For most designers I would say they should have a fixed price ready for a client as ‘price’ is the number one thing people look for now. I can’t think of many product/ services were you can’t get an instant price. Having looked at your logo quote questionnaire I can see how a lot of clients shopping for a quick quote would be put off but as you say the more barriers you put up the better quality client you will attract. My guess is you are charging a little more than the average designer who reads these posts (tho your work is great! ;-) so for yourself personally I think the quote questionnaire and your price argument is fair and valid for the clients you attract – who are prepared to invest in a quality logo. For any designers charging £200 or less giving a fixed fee would probably suit them better. I think ultimately it comes down to how as a designer you want to market yourself fast/cheap vs quality/price. No right or wrong answer really.
Yup, I agree. No right or wrong answer, all comes down to how you work and the type of work you are happy to attract and provide, not to mention the getting appropriate reputation.
Good response Rob. It was good to catch up with you on facebook. I will call you when back in the UK.