portfolio & design blog of logo & identity designer, Graham Smith

I receive the odd number of remarkable letters, like this and it usually leaves me with a slight need to express my unhappiness. The black lines just mean I can depersonalise the letter, the pink area is the specific area that caught my eye.
Highlighted text : “Anyway we are sending the brief out to a few designers as it’s quite important to get the logo sorted as soon as possible, anyway if you can send us a few designs we can look at them all and if we decide to use yours we can negotiate a price.”
Translation : “Anywho, we are sending this non-brief to any designers who may be desperate and stupid enough to work with us. As we have left the logo till the very last minute, we of course need this logo designed as soon as possible, specifically this week.
We don’t value your skill or profession, so we don’t see why we should pay you in advance, even a deposit. We certainly don’t trust that you will deliver the goods, even though we have picked you to help us. But we figure, the more designers we have, the more likely we will find a decent logo that will cost us next to nothing.
We want all the designers we have approached to send in their ideas on the off chance one of those will be good enough to use. Only then will the ‘lucky designer’ be compensated. As you can see from how we are approaching this, we will not be paying the winner a fair sum, likely a few hundred pounds if you are lucky. This is your own stupid fault for being such a lame ass mug.
We may also use your design, but tell you that you were not successful, we will also tell everyone else the same thing. We will then keep all the other submitted designs on file for future projects that require a similar theme. Free logos for us, and all it took was a mass mailer to do it.
Thanks ever so much for your time, it is REALLY appreciated.
My end thoughts
I may be using sarcasm as the main offensive here, and I realise many people view sarcasm as the lowest form of wit, but frankly, this sort of letter deserves nothing less.
No matter what you do for a living, if you received a letter like this, I am pretty sure you would not be entirely happy. Even less happy if you love what you do, that you cherish you particular skill, that you and others value what you do. Sending out a letter such as this is a perfect way to alienate yourself. Just try to think a little bit more about how easy it can be to devalue someone else’s profession, and think about how if the roles were reversed how it would make you feel?
Here’s a question to ponder over. Instead of emailing me, why don’t you pick up the phone and ask me exactly the same thing you have written here? If you don’t have the decency to make the call and ask in person, then this shows you know in your heart you are being inappropriate.
Post edited
I have edited this post since some comments ‘called out’ my incorrect comparison examples of photography and architecture. Although I actually stand by them, they were not worded in a clear way. I was simply implying that no matter the creative discipline, in the context of this letter, this sort of communication and first contact is likely to alienate the very people you are trying to ‘hire’. It’s just about thinking what you write and how it could be perceived. This letter just clearly implies you have no real appreciation or respect of the actual skill set of the people you are approaching. This is just rather odd.
Categories: Logo & Brand Identity
Tagged: clients, logo design < Previous: Clients are not mind readers : Explain your logo design process
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I’ve had a few of these before as well, and it always always makes me mad. Ah well, the way of the world sometimes. It’s the designers that fall for it that I feel bad for.
I’m just going to throw this out there… If future clients read this then the immediate impression they might get is that you’re unapproachable, slightly pompous and likely to post their private correspondence up on a public blog should they annoy you.
FYI, I’m a photographer and photographers do often work on the basis that you say they don’t. They do a shoot for free (yes, for FREE!) and make money if people pay for prints.
Although I appreciate your time in making a comment, I'm not so happy about your tone. I fully appreciate that in making slightly controversial posts as this, there is often a downside. I make that decision based on the positives and the negatives.
I can honestly say that if potential client regards me as pompous and unapproachable in the context of this one post, then I will not loose any sleep over it. The whole point of this post is to highlight how inappropriate it is to approach designers in such a way.
Maybe my examples of the photographer is slightly off, but in the context of (THIS, yes I can use all-caps too) post, it is more than appropriate.
Please don't tell me that you would be happy to receive exactly this letter, but with logo design subsituted for photographs? It is the manor and context of this particular letter that I draw attention to.
As I said, if clients view less of me after reading this letter, then I am OK with that. It is better for me to stand up for my own thoughts and beliefs than to just sit back and let it happen. It's your choice to do it for free, to take photographs or to even enter a logo design contest, thats a choice. My point here is that for a client to hold such low value over first contact is less than inspiring.
Just so you know, I’m not saying they WILL view you as pompous or unapproachable. Nor am I saying that I view you as pompous. I’m saying that they could/might – some people certainly will. I’m sure you considered that before posting though, as you say. :)
I receive e-mails like that most weeks, in honesty. I consider the request and, if I’m available, open a dialogue with them about their needs/wants. It is less than inspiring but I do understand that for some people simply having a photographer present is more important than having their CHOSEN photographer. It’s a blow to my ego to discover that they haven’t chosen me for my talent and skill, but I deal with it! ;-)
Anyway, thanks for approving my comment.
I really like this post, it is a “don’t” for potential customers. I mean, maybe they read and actually say “mate, he’s right, let’s for God sake change our approach!”.
Liked reading it, cheers. :)
I feel your distress. If id go through all those mails again where people are like “Oh how about you sit your ass down for two months and develop our whole Interface including the Database Management and maybe some additional Stuff we might come up with in the meantime and if we are ever satisfied you might receive a payment that wouldn't be enough to fill your Fridge for two days.” i'd literally start crying.
Oddly, if you are an architect and wanting to do a major public work – pitching your best idea in competition is exactly what you do.
My organisation is drawing up our “rules for engagement” with designers. We are interested in encouraging young local talent – but they need help in knowing how to get work ( don't have an on-line portfolio -doh!). In these circumstances we need to know what they can do.
I liked your translation.. that was a classy explanation for some of the clients who thinks that designing requires no effort… and it is something as easy as making a omelet…
I couldn't agree more – we occasionally get requests like this in and treat them in the same way.
Some people don't seem to understand that being a designer/graphic artist is a full-time job.
An architect submits something closer to a sketch. For very big tenders, maybe a model is built, but the entire internal structure of the building usually isn't specified in detail. The problem with creative design work like logo design is that the idea IS the work; it is the answer to a question. It can be in rough, or low-res, but once seen it can't be unseen.
As I mentioned in another reply, I guess my examples are not ideal. I agree that often to get noticed or to find work, you can 'choose' to do work for free, if there is a chance of a reward. I fully realise that of course.
I should have worded my post a little better, the examples I gave are in direct context of this letter. If any other form of creative, photographer, architect, sculptor received exactly this letter, I feel my point has merit.
My issue is not with doing work for free or anything like that, it's with perception of some creative disciplines, that we are all low cost workers, where our skill is apparently so devalued. The same is not true for architect for sure, their work and their profession, for the most part, is highly regarded and appreciated. Not true for, shall we say, logo designers.
We don't all help ourselves I agree, charging less than appropriate fees, we can be our own worst enemy. But receiving letters like this is not at all helpful.
Graham… I am actually gobsmacked someone would vomit out an email like that to you – that is exactly what it is… email vomit.
Did you reply to these scoundrels?
Photography is not the same thing – we're talking about logo design here! And to be honest… if I were Graham, I'd have done exactly the same thing posting it up here. People who email designers with such lack of respect for their profession disgust me.
this is something that pretty much every freelance designer has experienced. i put it down simply to the fact that graphic work is non-tangible and thus deemed less important. and because it is often seen as a hobby (in many cases it actually IS a hobby) it is also seen as something we do for fun and do not take seriously.
there is no way this is going to stop and you can probably forgive a client for trying, because i guarantee you their approach will work for them. though whether they end up with a piece of work of any true merit is another matter…
anyway, i'm glad you have highlighted this and you SHOULD alert them to it so they can read these responses.
It might be easier to just ignore it and get on your way, but I feel that if, on occasion, things like this are not highlighted, then it does not help in the long term. It's one small fish in a very large ocean, but makes me feel better to stand up to what I feel is right.
Thanks for your comment.
If you are desperate, in need of a break, then this might actually look like a break for you.
But I am not even really saying this is wrong. It's the actualy manor of the letter, how it is presented and how it is worded.
It's more an example of how not to communicate, rather than draw out the problem with spec work so to speak.
But yeah, there will always be people who will take up such offers. I have been there, I have been so desperate in the past that I would take anything that came by, if there was a chance of some financial reward. But these were through choices I made, usually me being the one to do the approaching. Rather than a depersonalised letter such as this.
:)
Because I stand behind these kinds of posts, even thought I know some people may view them as being irresponsible, I make sure I send on the post link to the person concerned.
One thing for me to argue my side on my blog, but quite another to do it behind there back so to speak.
So I do this so they get a chance to see for themselves, and if need be, explain why they think it's ok. So far, no one has replied. Not surprising really.
I guess we all have our limits to what is acceptable and not acceptable. For me, this is just an unacceptable way to communicate. Sure it will work for them, positive also they will get a number of designers submitting work.
I think it's just a case of drawing attention to 'thinking' a little bit more about how you word or approach someone. If they had taken the time to view my website, to view my portfolio and to actually personalise the email, my response would have been less 'god damn it'. :)
I highlight it because I know it's not typically an appreciated method, and will certainly get the back's up for most designers. And their clearly is a big difference between creatives disciplines.
And no problem with posting the comment, I was more than up for a debate. :)
Matt, Professional Photography and Professional Design have no place being devalued like that.
Artistic and Editorial Photography and design on the otherhand.. Go nuts.
Just in case any of you have forgotten (prospective clients included)
Professional:
1) Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career
2) Having or showing great skill; expert
3) Performed by persons receiving pay
4) Having or showing great skill
I didn't see free or spec work in there.. did you?
As for prospects, they're always looking for free work or the next great deal. We can only educate them. (repeatedly it seems)
My photographer takes artistic photos on her own for free and sells them in a gallery on her own dime. Professional photoshoots like a wedding are where her time, photos, rights, education, esperience, equipment, book keeping, hardware, software and everything else involved in her business are significant costs.
Charge for the shoot reasonably, then charge for the photos reasonably.
OR
do one for free and bloat the cost of the other to compensate.
If you're doing the shoots for free, I'd like to book you every day for the next year. I'll probably only buy one or two prints though. ;) Is that still free?
I like your thinking! You’ve got yourself a photographer! I’d just like to say that event and equestrian photographers do operate on a print basis. They turn up, work all day and then sell prints. If they sell no prints, they make no money. :)
Some of the people that have commented here are trying to draw parallels between logo design and photography/architecture – their process is completely different to logo design, and they clearly just don't get it.
I'd bet that the person who emailed you was a typical “ego-maniac MD persona”, who cares very little people and wants everything for nothing.
I'd actually like to see the culprits make an appearance here too so they can attempt to justify their email.
how not to approach keeping me interested in following every single inane bit of rubbish that creeps through your cranium every second of every day. who would hire you? seems all you do is tweet 18,000+ times per day.
Interesting comment. RE Twitter, unfollowing me would be a solution to that problem.
Exactly, that's spot-on, i don't wanna sound offensive either but it was a little ridiculous to compare the building of a Complex/House/Building with some Design Work in the first place. The main difference is, after a Architectural Draft/Design/Proposal got accepted it will usually result in a more long-term relationship with the customer with many Workers and Contractors (and a lot more money) involved. You deliver Drafts so you will get a good and hopefully big deal out of it.
With Logo Design it's a little different, of course, one could send some rough drafts, which is totally appropriate to get a Client Relationship going. But seeing this special Email we're talking about right here (and we're only talking about this special email, not all Client Requests that come flying in) it just leaves a bitter taste while reading through it, it comes of more like a competition for who can work the fastest for the lowest amount and hopefully deliver JUST what the Client wants in a fully-fleshed out manner at almost no timeframe.
If they just wanted a quick logo from somebody they could've started a Contest on deviantart or something like that, maybe some unknown Talent would've even gotten a good reference for his Portfolio. But not send out bundled emails to designers with good reputation only to make them compete against each other. Just the fact that they seemingly “forgot” to think about something as essential as logo and corporate design makes this Client Request and the associated Business appear rather shady and incompetent.
This is a frequent problem for all us designers. I get this type of thing all the time, sometimes even from existing clients. Some people just don't appreciate the level of involvement design projects command. Stringent time detailing and task logging are essential ingredients in order to keep existing, and new, client relationships in check.
Website design and development is another highly misunderstood field. People see websites they like and expect them to be knocked together in 2 days for a ridiculous budget.
Education is the key to all this. Long live people who make a stand and put this stuff out there. Yes, some may feel these types of posts can be damaging, but either way these points need to be continually addressed in a way which will benefit potential clients and not alienate then.
If this guy had have done some research into the designer he was requesting from, i.e, briefly checked out Graham's website/blog, he/she may have realised what he/she was asking was not realistic and saved himself some time.
And they can always say, “Oh sorry, we decided we're using someone else's design but thank you for sending yours in!” to everybody and end up not paying anybody.
Even better is when they send this last minute request for a design and then pick what you did to death at the supposed deadline, beating all creativity out of it.
I get request like these either in email or in person about twice a week, or at least the part where they want to see concepts without paying. Most of the time is not their fault though. Some of them think this is a money saving practice, and that they're just being mart. If I see a need I try to explain how this practice does more harm to them than good, since they don't get the quality work they need.
This profession requires patience.
Kudos to you for taking a stance Graham. This kinda of communication from potential clients is completely unacceptable.
The difference between you and some others out there is that you actually have the balls to say what most of us are already thinking. Instead worrying about the possibility of alienating a few clients (who you wouldn't want to work with anyway), there should be more of us (like you) highlighting why this kind of thing is wrong.
I'm really shocked that so many (okay, two or three) people think there isn't anything wrong with this. It isn't good business practice, in ANY industry, to work for free, and it certainly isn't professional on a client's part to assume without any previous contact that a designer will be happy to do so.
What I DO love about letters like this is that it highlights one benefit of working for yourself – we CAN choose who we work with. I do not like the assumption that because we are the ones getting paid, we'll sell our souls for the cash. Business has changed, and business owners and freelancers are in control of who they choose to work with, just as much as clients are. And I love that.
As you mentioned, there is always a downside to this sort of approach, but it is a calculated decision on my part. And a risk I am prepared to take.
Having worked for most of my adult life for 'the man' where individual thought and express was frowned upon, even as a manager… the freedome to be able to express oneself over things that you feel strongly about, risks and downsides all factored in, is something that can't be measured.
I didn't leave my full time job to then start up a business only to have to keep my mouth shout over things and people that offend me, either directly or indirectly.
I just hope more people can see that it makes perfect sense to speak up about such things.
Thanks for your support.
There were far many more comments that were just down and out rude. I am happy to allow heated comments, like those from Mat below, although that one was a close call as I took part of his comment as a direct attack, rather than focus on the main point.
The other comments have just been totally offensive and just 'haters' finding any possible reason to lash out and offend. These comments don't see the light of day.
You are spot on with what you say. As I replied to Duane, after having worked as a employee for close to 22 years, being in a position where I can make my own decisions and be ultimately responsible for my own failures as well as successes is something worth fighting for.
Part of that is being able to, at times, be selective about the work you take on, especially at times of increased workload. It's all about choise and nothing to do with arrogance. I have earned that right to run my business how I see fit, and so far, all is well. I tend to carry on how I have been approaching life and work for the last 3 years in exactly the same way.
Some people view designers who are selective about what clients they take on as being arrogant and elitist, but again, as you quite rightly point out, what client does not choose carefully who 'they' work with. Are then we as designers not allowed the same privilege? It's just a case of being a little bit more 'wide eyed'.
This post sort of got a little bit out of context, my main point is that for anyone to approach anyone else with the expectation they should work hard for free is just wrong, doesn't matter if its done now, it's not right. Other people used other examples to put my post into a nose dive, but the fact is, a serious identity design can take weeks and weeks, not just days. That's a lot of work to put out there on the off chance your design will not be used officially but stolen. That's part of the bigger problem we face with such approaches. And that's the key element that really needs to be addressed, as Shirely mentioned below, once an idea/sketch/concept has been seen, it can't be unseen.
It really beggards belief that anyone would think that Spec Work is acceptable. But in the era of *designers* offering *professional* creative services such as website/logo for $5/$50 with a turnaround of 24 hours/3 days – I fear this sort of thing is only going to get worse. This chap might as well have run a contest on Crowdspring; no dobut he would have quite a few takers.
The whole point of me returning to work for myself is that I want the freedom to choose what I do and who I do it for. by the same token, clients are free to choose whomever they wish to do the work – just dont expect something for nothing or at knockdown prices. You get what you pay for full stop.
Stick to your guns Graham. Anyone who has a problem with your rationale is someone to avoid.
What it comes down to is creative work is so undervalued all over the world – it's a constant battle for those trying to earn a living at it. My business at present is based entirely on referral, so it's important that I acknowledge every prospect. However, in these types of situations, I usually refer them to those 'logo designs in 24 hours for $20!' – or similar industry 'car salesman'. Because in the end that's what they want – the cheapest thing possible, regardless of the professional quality. Personally, that's not what I do, and if they want that, then they'll need to go somewhere else. 'Joe's Logo Shop' or something…
Good on you, Graham. I hope to be as ballsy as you one day… :-)
lol you hit the nail on the head with this one. too many people out there dont appreciate the time, creative thinking, and effort that is involved in such design-work. thanks for sharing!
Ahh spec work. I tend to name and shame. I encourage you to do the same.
To the photographer comment: you’re being lied to, and you’re damaging your already frail industry. Stand up for yourself and don’t work for free.