Certainly there are business folk who want branding on the cheap and there always will be, but I believe ignorance is at the root of most people’s apparent mendacity, exacerbated by “designers” who have no education or training, but who have “always been creative.” If one has never been taught to tell good work from bad, one may continue to purchase bad work under the illusion that it is good.

To reduce the numbers of “pain-in-the-ass” clients, it is in every designer’s best interest to educate potential clients. Even though I have no intention of becoming a printer, it is in my best interest as a consumer to understand the printing process and how that affects timing and pricing.

I work to be an educated consumer and I prefer to work with people who don’t mind answering my questions. In particular, I prefer partners I can work with long-term; those who hear me out and address my viewpoints without labeling them as “stupid.”

Certainly there are business folk who want branding on the cheap and there always will be, but I believe ignorance is at the root of most people’s apparent mendacity, exacerbated by “designers” who have no education or training, but who have “always been creative.” If one has never been taught to tell good work from bad, one may continue to purchase bad work under the illusion that it is good.

To reduce the numbers of “pain-in-the-ass” clients, it is in every designer’s best interest to educate potential clients. Even though I have no intention of becoming a printer, it is in my best interest as a consumer to understand the printing process and how that affects timing and pricing.

I work to be an educated consumer and I prefer to work with people who don’t mind answering my questions. In particular, I prefer partners I can work with long-term; those who hear me out and address my viewpoints without labeling them as “stupid.”

Think about….. Bill Q. Rancher decides to hustle up himself a cattle business, he buys the land, builds the barn, runs the fences, etc, etc, ooooI need to brand the bovines!!! He runs out and has his initials quickly twisted in metal in the blacksmith’s shop. There’s no real design process to it. No sketching, no research into his family name, the quality of the soil or the salient qualities of the geographic region. Just, “CLETUS!” rastle me up a brand to stick on my cows! And boom in one afternoon, no sorry in a few hours it’s done. Mind you there may be geniuses out there that can do the whole “logo design” process lickity split. I do not doubt that. But lets stick with the chunky part of the bell curve here.

I have no probs with this “designer” doing his thing to rustle up page views. That’s his thing, but do not pretend to be a professional when you are clearly not! Do not dilute the delicate and intricate craft that is branding and identity design down to pixel pushing…. in Photoshop!!! Mind you if a designer decides to offer “True Logo Design Services” for free then go on right ahead! It may be part of a bigger strategy it may not be. I have done numerous pro-bono jobs for non-profits in my 10 years. I have put up with my fair number of clients that equate the value of design to chicken squat. It will always be there. But what “our friend” here is offering is an incredible detriment to our industry… the ugly truth is that it will continue to happen.

What do we do? Do good work, always. Deliver the goods, whether we charge top dollar to that Daddy Warbucks client we have been eyeing or if we do a favor to Johnny Appleseed for that child’s cancer logo. Do good work and better work will come. Watch how long this experiment of his lasts for…He will get the worst clients to fall of the turnip truck looking for spiffy hi-grade work and will want a million tweaks.

This makes me want to start my own experiment…stay tuned.

Think about….. Bill Q. Rancher decides to hustle up himself a cattle business, he buys the land, builds the barn, runs the fences, etc, etc, ooooI need to brand the bovines!!! He runs out and has his initials quickly twisted in metal in the blacksmith’s shop. There’s no real design process to it. No sketching, no research into his family name, the quality of the soil or the salient qualities of the geographic region. Just, “CLETUS!” rastle me up a brand to stick on my cows! And boom in one afternoon, no sorry in a few hours it’s done. Mind you there may be geniuses out there that can do the whole “logo design” process lickity split. I do not doubt that. But lets stick with the chunky part of the bell curve here.

I have no probs with this “designer” doing his thing to rustle up page views. That’s his thing, but do not pretend to be a professional when you are clearly not! Do not dilute the delicate and intricate craft that is branding and identity design down to pixel pushing…. in Photoshop!!! Mind you if a designer decides to offer “True Logo Design Services” for free then go on right ahead! It may be part of a bigger strategy it may not be. I have done numerous pro-bono jobs for non-profits in my 10 years. I have put up with my fair number of clients that equate the value of design to chicken squat. It will always be there. But what “our friend” here is offering is an incredible detriment to our industry… the ugly truth is that it will continue to happen.

What do we do? Do good work, always. Deliver the goods, whether we charge top dollar to that Daddy Warbucks client we have been eyeing or if we do a favor to Johnny Appleseed for that child’s cancer logo. Do good work and better work will come. Watch how long this experiment of his lasts for…He will get the worst clients to fall of the turnip truck looking for spiffy hi-grade work and will want a million tweaks.

This makes me want to start my own experiment…stay tuned.

Now to answer some questions you had asked in your blog post:

True Logo Service(n): A company or person who specializes in creating a graphic to represent a clients company and/or products or brand.

What should come in a package? Basically a cheap package would be 1 logo concept and high resolution jpg/pngs in multiple sizes. For higher paying clients give them a vector file, high rez files and as many concepts they want to pay for. In all cases however, I think the logo needs to have sketches and it needs to mean something. There has to be a connecting between this graphic and the company and what they stand for. I think even the cheapest client is entitled to 1 revision for free anything after should cost.

What’s the different from an amateur and a pro? I don’t think anything more than how good your logos are. I know quite a few people I would never hire for logos even though they have been doing it for 20 or more years where I would pay someone who was just out of college or maybe high school that actually understands what a logo does for a company. I look at their philosophy.

I look at it like sports. Any team will sign up the best player whether he is in high school, college, or the amateurs. I don’t ever look at a designer who has been doing it for X amount of years. I look for a designer who know what he doing and does it well.

Now to answer some questions you had asked in your blog post:

True Logo Service(n): A company or person who specializes in creating a graphic to represent a clients company and/or products or brand.

What should come in a package? Basically a cheap package would be 1 logo concept and high resolution jpg/pngs in multiple sizes. For higher paying clients give them a vector file, high rez files and as many concepts they want to pay for. In all cases however, I think the logo needs to have sketches and it needs to mean something. There has to be a connecting between this graphic and the company and what they stand for. I think even the cheapest client is entitled to 1 revision for free anything after should cost.

What’s the different from an amateur and a pro? I don’t think anything more than how good your logos are. I know quite a few people I would never hire for logos even though they have been doing it for 20 or more years where I would pay someone who was just out of college or maybe high school that actually understands what a logo does for a company. I look at their philosophy.

I look at it like sports. Any team will sign up the best player whether he is in high school, college, or the amateurs. I don’t ever look at a designer who has been doing it for X amount of years. I look for a designer who know what he doing and does it well.

I am entitled to my ideas and thoughts to which I have expressed, as have you.

If this post was just me ranting and raving about this chap then fair enough. But it’s not, i use it to highllight a further topic, a more important and interesting one.

The topic that has seen many people write some insightful and meaningful replies.

Please get over the first paragraph and focus on the post and thoughts in question.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, including you, the moment you write, post, rant or praise about anything on any blog you are by the very nature opening yourself up for people to comment back either negatively or positively. If this chap is so sensitive or has so many people looking out for him he should, in my opinion, re think what he posts about, and keep to subject that he knows about or can ‘put up and shut up’.

But for your information. Yes, it bothers me because his post belittles and cheapens a valuable commodity. I have managed to woo clients from the darkside to ‘get’ clients that initially felt they would NEVER pay for a logo, to actually reconsider.

His argument that they would never probably pay for a logo is utterly naive and frankly, insulting to many people, clients who just need to have certain things explained, rather than just painted with the same brush.

And given a chance to realise that it needn’t cost the earth for a great logo and that it’s often false economy to expect otherwise. I would even say OScar, that your own thoughts on this are ‘naive’.

Dont assume that non paying clients who take on a free logo and cheap and freeloading. They merely have not had the truth about logo design explained to them.

This is where Franklin IS damaging genuine and trustworthy designers.

I am entitled to my ideas and thoughts to which I have expressed, as have you.

If this post was just me ranting and raving about this chap then fair enough. But it’s not, i use it to highllight a further topic, a more important and interesting one.

The topic that has seen many people write some insightful and meaningful replies.

Please get over the first paragraph and focus on the post and thoughts in question.

Anyone, and I mean anyone, including you, the moment you write, post, rant or praise about anything on any blog you are by the very nature opening yourself up for people to comment back either negatively or positively. If this chap is so sensitive or has so many people looking out for him he should, in my opinion, re think what he posts about, and keep to subject that he knows about or can ‘put up and shut up’.

But for your information. Yes, it bothers me because his post belittles and cheapens a valuable commodity. I have managed to woo clients from the darkside to ‘get’ clients that initially felt they would NEVER pay for a logo, to actually reconsider.

His argument that they would never probably pay for a logo is utterly naive and frankly, insulting to many people, clients who just need to have certain things explained, rather than just painted with the same brush.

And given a chance to realise that it needn’t cost the earth for a great logo and that it’s often false economy to expect otherwise. I would even say OScar, that your own thoughts on this are ‘naive’.

Dont assume that non paying clients who take on a free logo and cheap and freeloading. They merely have not had the truth about logo design explained to them.

This is where Franklin IS damaging genuine and trustworthy designers.

First off, not everyone gets one and second he says he has only been doing it for about 6 months and even worse he uses Photoshop to do them (people in the future asking “can I make this bigger?”). They get what they pay.

In response to Robyn McIntyre “they wont understand why” is just stupid. Even if I don’t know what a tool is, let’s just say a air compressor for fun, i can bet money that a $4,000 one will be better than a $19.99 on a TV infomercial. You have to be *really* stupid to not get that.

He has no experience, doesn’t lie that he has any, they are free, and it’s basically a draw on who gets one. They *will be* awful, I can bet money on it, so why does it bother you? Do you even want a client who thinks that “a basic logo only takes about a day”? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Could you ever imagine Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Burger King, etc ever Googling “free logos”? No, and I bet anyone trying to get a free logo or a cheap one is going to end up being a pain in the ass client :)

First off, not everyone gets one and second he says he has only been doing it for about 6 months and even worse he uses Photoshop to do them (people in the future asking “can I make this bigger?”). They get what they pay.

In response to Robyn McIntyre “they wont understand why” is just stupid. Even if I don’t know what a tool is, let’s just say a air compressor for fun, i can bet money that a $4,000 one will be better than a $19.99 on a TV infomercial. You have to be *really* stupid to not get that.

He has no experience, doesn’t lie that he has any, they are free, and it’s basically a draw on who gets one. They *will be* awful, I can bet money on it, so why does it bother you? Do you even want a client who thinks that “a basic logo only takes about a day”? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Could you ever imagine Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Burger King, etc ever Googling “free logos”? No, and I bet anyone trying to get a free logo or a cheap one is going to end up being a pain in the ass client :)

Would it help to tell potential clients how much companies like Coca-Cola spend on their logos or show them examples of good logos versus bad and why? Would that make them into lifetime clients or be too much trouble?

Would it help to tell potential clients how much companies like Coca-Cola spend on their logos or show them examples of good logos versus bad and why? Would that make them into lifetime clients or be too much trouble?

Spec sites, and other sites that offer cookie-cutter logos and rejected/generic “brands” often help propagate the idea that you just need a logo and things will come together.

The important part of the traditional design process, maybe the most important, is the conversation that goes on to explain why the logo should look a certain way, how the logo will help be the company’s introduction and what it will say and become once its attached to a consistent package and presentation method. The conversation about how to effectively use that introduction, that graphic element that is your company’s face to the public, this is the branding conversation that is lost when you go outside of the true logo design service path.

I think that’s lost on those outside the industry. Logo design is more than just the end result, the part leading up to it is 10 times more important.

Spec sites, and other sites that offer cookie-cutter logos and rejected/generic “brands” often help propagate the idea that you just need a logo and things will come together.

The important part of the traditional design process, maybe the most important, is the conversation that goes on to explain why the logo should look a certain way, how the logo will help be the company’s introduction and what it will say and become once its attached to a consistent package and presentation method. The conversation about how to effectively use that introduction, that graphic element that is your company’s face to the public, this is the branding conversation that is lost when you go outside of the true logo design service path.

I think that’s lost on those outside the industry. Logo design is more than just the end result, the part leading up to it is 10 times more important.